Matias and legal problems in FLA

[Elaine]

Here’s what we’ve heard, summarizing from a source we believe is credible. Seems that Matias went home to South America before Thanksgiving and returned on or about Jan 5th. Purportedly a warrant had been issued, purportedly he owes Mary Kline roughly the price of a motor home, which purportedly Matias claims was payment for all he did for her dogs. One would have to assume that Mary and Matias disagree and she filed a civil suit.

Purportedly Matias did not appear on the summons, possibly there was a problem with him being served, so he was contacted on the show grounds, we’ve heard he was in the ring.

The story is that he was being held on 75K, as he is considered a flight risk... and his wife is still in South America. Given the time that has past since the FLA circuit, one would assume he has posted a bond.

We have heard of financial problems in the past involving Matias and his clients. Well over a year ago (possibly over two years go), Matias told us of a situation where he was suing/had sued/was threatening to sue a woman who owned a Monty son. Supposedly she had not paid him. Not sure what ever came of that. In all of these stories, there are bound to be details we will never know.

It's a hard life for a dog handler. The ones that are successful and respected over a life time conduct themselves as professionals. They never burn bridges, they treat all clients fairly and they abide by a CODE that says, the dog comes first. And they NEVER, EVER, EVER do less than the best job possible, each and every time they go in the ring. If you get caught on the wrong side of that code, you do indeed have problems.

[andyhilt27]

Another element to the bad side of showing dogs. That is not to say Matias is on the bad side.....I am not a judge and have not heard any facts concerning this so I have no opinion(not that it would matter anyway) either way other than it's a probably bad deal for all involved.

So let's make a list of the cons to owning a Doberman: Show ring politics/corruption, bad co-ownerships(this can apply to the breeder as well as the buyer or even both), breed specific legislation, cardio issues in which we are currently pretty much helpless, and gossipy alliances that fuel lies and half truths.

Hmmm....by chance, are there any breeders from Switzerland?

[doberdogsfd]

I need to just counsel everyone that feels a need to make a statement around what may or may not have happend in Florida. The fact is, that none of us other then the parties involved know the truth.
This was brought to us the day it occurred and we adviced the person not to " Whisper down the lane", if you will.


To Andy's very good point, this appears to be a bad situation all around and frankly, none of my business.


Cheryl

[Betty]

Cheryl, I find myself agreeing with you again! This a serious matter.. and it is personal. I don't think it lends itself to this type of discussion. You and I know that this supposedly happened awhile ago.. I have not seen it discussed in any other forum. I would hope that this thread would be closed.

Betty

[Elaine]

I need to just counsel everyone that feels a need to make a statement around what may or may not have happend in Florida. The fact is, that none of us other then the parties involved know the truth.
This was brought to us the day it occurred and we adviced the person not to " Whisper down the lane", if you will.
Cheryl

Cheryl, I find myself agreeing with you again! This a serious matter.. and it is personal. I don't think it lends itself to this type of discussion. You and I know that this supposedly happened awhile ago.. I have not seen it discussed in any other forum. I would hope that this thread would be closed.

Betty

I absolutely disagree… civil litigation is public record... and there purportedly was an event that occurred in a public place. More on point, we have very little data to go on when it comes to choosing handlers… there is no professional oversight… and no organization that will disclose these sort of things. I think anyone using a handler has right to know about their track record. It is a matter of some importance. Also, some of the details of this situation have been widely disseminated… if there are mitigating circumstances, they will come to light. No one is going beyond a discussion of the facts… which is allowed. Civil litigation is the appropriate venue for a dispute of this kind (it is not a damning condemnation of either party that their alleged dispute can only be resolved in court). And, if Matias is not a citizen and/or does not own real property in the jurisdiction of the court, I can understand he could be considered a flight risk. If that is so, it is not a sweeping condemnation of him.

[andyhilt27]

I see your point, Elaine. However, people do not magically begin to tell the truth once under oath in a courtroom. A judment or settlement can still lead to a lot of speculation.

I do not know either party or even the stories surrounding all of this. Perhaps only one is to blame, or it could be that both played a huge role in this disagreement. If the latter is true, then this would prove to be unfortunate that either would have a stigmata placed upon them as this might not have happened under any other circumstance.

Some wouldn't have trusted Michael Jackson with a child nor would they be happy to see OJ with a knife and these two walked, but can any of us say for certain that either were innocent based on the judgement? The court system very rarely proves right or wrong with complex cases.disclaimer: please note that although both references are black, the above has nothing to do with race.....just two highly publicized cases that came to mind.

[Elaine]

Andy,

There is a profound difference between a civil dispute and the criminal charges filed by a prosecutor against Michael Jackson. Criminal charges are brought by the state, and jail is often a possible consequence and if the state wins, there is a conviction. Civil actions are brought by private individuals seeking redress against other private individuals. The alleged Matias situation is a civil matter, purportedly he is not being accused of committing a crime… rather, there is allegedly a civil dispute between private parties. In a civil dispute, the remedy sought is a judgment (usually a dollar amount or specific performance).

This may not be a matter of right and wrong at all, it may simply be two people disagreeing about a set of facts. A judgment in a civil suit does not necessarily mean that one party is wrong... it may simply mean the applicable law favors the other party. Both parties may be right in part, and both parties may be wrong in part. It is not so much a question of right and wrong, it’s more a matter that in our society the courts are the proper venue for resolving disputes. A 150 years ago you could call someone out on the streets at high noon for a shoot out (which may not have been a bad system after all). In 2010 you go to court seeking resolution of your disputes, and that resolution may have nothing to do with “right or wrong.”
A judment or settlement can still lead to a lot of speculation.
As for whether people will speculate, they do anyway; so what! It’s news. This is a news forum. I am not going to be held hostage to some idiotic theory that “morons will get this wrong, so we can’t discuss it at all.” Bullshit!!! Not only can we discuss it in an intelligent manner, we have a right to discuss it, if only so that we have a better understanding of our legal system.

[doberdogsfd]

Everyone has a right to disagree and have their own opinion.
Part of the freedom we all enjoy in this country.

There really isn't any discusion about the legal issues at hand Elaine, I for one do not give a rat's ass.

Just like the rest of us, Matias has the right NOT to have his personal business speculated on or gossiped about.
It really bears no weight in his ability to handle a dog. No dogs were harmed in the making of the film. He and the plaintiff are the ones that are involved.

He isn't Alla Mc Greery who boosted a dog and then hacked a leg off and was proven guilty in a court of law.

There are many variables that can come into play as to why and what. None of which are anyone 's business but the above mentioned.


I believe a member of this forum that lurks in the shadows has had suit brought against him...specifically for dogs he has judged. Make him a bad person or someone with really poor judgement. You pick it.
I have my own opinion, it will remain mine. I believe even he should have that small amount of courtesy.

Always a lively discussion on this forum! ;)
Cheryl

[Elaine]

No one is speculating about his personal business... for that matter, no one is speculating at all. A civil suit of this kind is a matter of public record. And this is not about personal business, it is about professional conduct.

Matias, by his own account, has used the courts of this country to try to collect a debt, at least according to what he told us ringside at our MCKC show few years back. He was very public about naming names and making accusations about a client who owned a Monty son, whom he alleged owed him handling fees.

Using the legal system for redress of grievances is the appropriate recourse, there is nothing inherently wrong with being either the plaintiff or the defendant. Btw, this situation involves the plaintiff too, who has a side to all of this, which is spelled out in their Complaint. A Complaint is filed with a court, and is publically accessible. I have friends in the legal profession in Florida… who are in and out of the courts all day long. I don’t suppose it’d be much of a problem to get a copy of the complaint.

About Alla, DSNN was one of the few sources (if not the only source) for accurate information about that criminal action. We took a stand to report accurately about the situation long before there was the successful conviction in the criminal prosecution. That’s about where any parallels stop, in part because this matter with Matias is purportedly a civil matter. But you have to admit, Alla benefited greatly from no one going public early on to discuss the facts. She was able to generate a juggernaut of sympathy and support, in huge part because many were silent.

[doberdogsfd]

I get the civil a suit and all that deal, been there done that.
Again, I do not give a rat's ass.

The point I am making is, someone called me to tell a tale, someone called you to tell a tale, someone called someone to tell a tale and on and on........

You and I didn't find out via the papers. None of us were in Florida other then the person that called me. I think your source was in the south but a bit more north, perhaps?
I am sure anyone that is a legal junky can get the info. I am not sure this one is making it to Judge Judy.

No one that really is putting grist to this mill wants the legal terms or to understand the system better , they want the dirt to publicaly gut this kid.

I am not debating anyone's conduct but ours and how we handle this.

Not everyone needs to know everything. If they did , they might be suprised at some of the back stories here on DSNN.

Again, bad person or piss poor judgement? People do things for a number of different reasons. Not all of them because they have a black heart and evil intent.

As for Alla, she was able to steam roll stuff because of a passive vet and her trust in the ability of "the legal system" to handle her problem. Not so much.

Cheryl

[Elaine]

I get the civil a suit and all that deal, been there done that.
Again, I do not give a rat's ass. Just a thought, but you may not be the only one reading this.

The point I am making is, someone called me to tell a tale, someone called you to tell a tale, someone called someone to tell a tale and on and on........ Just a clarification, but no one called me about this. As I said, it is widely circulated info.

You and I didn't find out via the papers. None of us were in Florida other then the person that called me. I think your source was in the south but a bit more north, perhaps? Phil is not my source... you are jumping to inaccurate conclusions.

I am sure anyone that is a legal junky can get the info. I am not sure this one is making it to Judge Judy.

No one that really is putting grist to this mill wants the legal terms or to understand the system better , they want the dirt to publicaly gut this kid. I think that is a huge leap... full of innuendo and speculation. NO one wants to gut Matias, and he is not a kid. He sues people,he gets sued... it happens. Matias is a friend of Diego’s and you feel protective of him, I get that, but if this were any other handler you might see that this is not personal. And yes, to put our cards on the table, we feel that Matias can turn his"great" handling skills off and on as it suits him, it is what we expereinced twice with him... but we do not know Mary Kline and had absolutely nothing to do with this dispute or how it's been handled. It is a matter of common knowlege and public record. I am not debating anyone's conduct but ours and how we handle this. You and I both know there is more to the story here… and that this thread has been very discrete given what could be said.

Not everyone needs to know everything. If they did , they might be suprised at some of the back stories here on DSNN.

Again, bad person or piss poor judgement? People do things for a number of different reasons. Not all of them because they have a black heart and evil intent. NO one has said anything at all about intent

As for Alla, she was able to steam roll stuff because of a passive vet and her trust in the ability of "the legal system" to handle her problem. Not so much.

Cheryl
Alla was the benefactress of the agenda of a third party… the PR supporting her had nothing to do with Stella. But the warped agenda flourished because people wanted to control what information got out there. That ain't happening here.

[doberdogsfd]

If this was an American handler, oh let's say Kelly, Gwen...Billy Bob Beaudacious...would we be so aggressive about telling the tale?

CB

[Elaine]

If this was an American handler, oh let's say Kelly, Gwen...Billy Bob Beaudacious...would we be so aggressive about telling the tale?

CB

Absolutely yes!!! Look at our website about what Andy Linton did to Titan!!! Andy is American born and raised. We said what was true about what happened to Titan.

If we were “aggressive" as you suggest, we’d probably be reporting the more salacious details, which clearly we have not done, nor have we speculated about any of the reasons why for this or that. You are suggesting that merely reporting what happened amounts to “gutting” poor Matias. I strongly disagree.

[doberdogsfd]

That was first hand experience you had and your own dog.
This is gossip from ringside.
A tad different.

[doberdogsfd]

Anyone getting neck pain from the tennis match here? LOL!!

[Elaine]

Let’s cut to the chase here… what about this is inaccurate? The dissemination of any news amounts to reporting what occurred. That is what we did, no more, in fact, probably a bit less.

Reporting Titan's story and understanding what all happened involved third hand accounts from Cheri McNealy, Marge Brooks, Cathy Ceely, and many others, some of whom merely repeated what they heard. It all combined to unravel what the heck happened.

[doberdogsfd]

I am saying it is not appropriate to spread rumor and gossip.
You know as well as I do the people closest to this issue aren't chatting it up with any of us. Nor should they.
So the true details are really not out there...nor should they be...it isn't our business.


CB

[Athy]

No, I'm following it pretty well :) and find both points of view to have merit.

I'm not sure what to think of this particular situation but I do know however that it's just not a good idea to compare convicted felon Alla McGeary to a financial dispute between a handler and a dog owner. No comparison whatsoever.

Athy

[Elaine]

I am saying it is not appropriate to spread rumor and gossip.

CB

And where we part company is that civil litigation is not rumor and gossip. It is fact (i.e., it is fact that a civil action is filed, it is a matter of public record). Someone alleges a set of facts under a theory of applicable law… and then mkes their claim in public (in court). It is not gossip or rumor… in fact, of all the criticisms of civil litigation (and god knows I have a zillion and one), civil litigation is the ULTIMATE “not gossip and rumor.”

We are not reporting one persons side of the dispute, rather, we are reporting that there IS allegedly a dispute. And in the context of a dog show news network, litigation of this type is news that is relevant.

[Elaine]

No, I'm following it pretty well :) and find both points of view to have merit.

I'm not sure what to think of this particular situation but I do know however that it's just not a good idea to compare convicted felon Alla McGeary to a financial dispute between a handler and a dog owner. No comparison whatsoever.

Athy
I absolutely agree!

[doberdogsfd]

You girls rock on. I am out.
I do not agree with any of it. I believe we need not to spread the gossip.
Alla is a felon and there isn't a need to debat that. The kid hasn't really been judged except by the ringside gossips.

The first post had him gutted and having done harm to dogs. Clearly he did not. and not putting them first...blah..blah..blah...

No one really knows the facts other then the parties involved.

CB

[Elaine]

I think you read a lot into the first post that was not there (because you have more details than many here and you made some assumptions, like about Phil, which are simply not true). If you look back, the original post stayed well on the nice side of things, which was specifically my intent. Even in all of this exchange, though we strongly disagree on several important points, I think you and I have both stayed on the civil side of things…. which is as much as can be expected when two people disagree.

We will follow this story as it unfolds… time will tell what was what.

[doberdogsfd]

I have been quiet through this as I really do not care much if someone I do not know brings a suit against someone I met once or twice. Cheryl and I have met Matias and his wife Meche (sp?) which is a nickname a couple of times. We met his daughter the weekend Vaako finished. And it is true that Diego is close to Matias, but that is not what is at the heart of the matter.

In the first post the first few paragraphs are extremely factual. To Elaine's point he may not have received the summons. During the course of my career I have "failed to appear" because I was not notified properly. I once received a call from an officer asking "where are you?" I replied Florida. He said so you are not coming to court today to testify? I said obviously not, I did not know we had court and did not receive the summons. He said I am going to put you on speaker so you can talk to the Judge as he is about to issue a bench warrant for you. I was the plaintiff/witness for the state. All was good after a few minutes. Now Matias might not have received the summons, he might have I have no idea. They showed up at the ring as they knew they would find him there.

Unfortunately at that point his business became public. What is going on between him and Kline is not my concern. If it had something to do with how he treated dogs then I think it would be. If it has something to do with how he treated a Motor Home I will never care.

I don't care if it is about who pays there bills on time or who doesn't. I only care if someone owes me money and is not paying. I do not think someone’s credit score so to speak is an indication of their character.

Now I do not think Cheryl is trying to defend Matias, I know she is not. Cheryl is trying to raise the point that sometimes there exist issues between people and when others talk about it or get involved it can muddy things and the wrong info can get out there. Having been the "target" of a smear campaign and having a disagreement with one person turning into many people getting involved and talking through their collective asses we think staying out of it is the best course of action.

There are many on this forum that know what I am referring to. Cheryl and I chose not to engage or even give credence to the person behind the attack. We have chosen not to sink to their level. Their is one person who jumped on the bandwagon, bashed Cheryl and I, bashed our puppies, Vaako and Emma, talked through his ass quite a bit. He met us once briefly at the Nationals. He spread malicious lies. Karma says he will get what is coming to him. What goes around comes around. In the end he and the person who started the campaign looked like the asses they were because everything they said was proven incorrect. There are others who tried to get involved and lost as well. Then there are those who said I am hearing all this B.S. can you tell me what is really going on. We told them and they made up their own minds.

I hate giving credence to the person in this post. In our minds they do not exist or matter. We are happy that person is out of our lives!!! We are happy the people in our lives add value and enrich us.

Here is what I know. Those who asked whether they agreed with us or not gained our respect. Those who did not and jumped on the bandwagon gained our disdain. It was no ones business really except for us, the person we had a disagreement with and those also impacted by the negativity.

So for us it really has nothing to do with Matias or the events it has to do with asking the question should we be talking about it? We heard the day it happened and made a choice not to say anything. We wanted to call Diego and make sure he and Eve were ok since they are all very close with Matias. We chose not to because we did not want Diego to think we were getting in business that did not involve us and since we do not have a relationship with Matias it could have been received wrong.

That is our stance. Maybe because we know a lot of things others don't Cheryl did read too much in. Maybe it is because of what happened to us we want to stay clear and bring that perspective to the post. I am not going to try and figure out why this post was started, the post is here so now we all have the choice to play the gossip game and add to it making things up, read it and wait to see what happens or ignore it and get in on the other thread that is sparking some good sound debate as well. Me I am off to cook Cheryl her Birthday Brunch, then pick up her cake and scoop the yard.:D

With all that being said this is the first "SPIRITED DEBATE" we have had on DSNN in a long time. I think the last time it was this fun/spirited to debate a point was the Alla stuff. No matter whether we agree or disagree the debate is what is really important as that is how we all gain perspective and move forward.

JMO,
Bob

[doberdogsfd]

Of course we stayed on the civil side we are friends and repsect each others right to have an opinion and disagree. The reality is if we agreed on everything our relationship would be boring as all hell.

The reason I am adding this is I do not want anyone on the forum to get the wrong idea about anything. Good friends do sometimes disagree but the strength of their relationship and respect they have for one another makes is ok to do so, even when you want to poke each other in the eye:p for not seeing each others point.

Not that I am an advocate of eye poking....I think Elaine is and she is small and wirey so one has to be careful:D


Bob

[Elaine]

I believe that the reference is that such and such is “better than a sharp stick in the eye.” I am not an advocate of poking anyone… anywhere… though there are times I’d like to … well never mind. :cool:

[andyhilt27]

...Billy Bob Beaudacious...

CB

Hey, that's may ring name!!!! They blast "Dueling Banjos" through the P.A. before I enter the ring.

[doberdogsfd]

I worked with a kid who I think was from Georgia or wanted to be from there......
I called Josh, Billy Bob Beaudacious for many reasons.....he hated it was the most important one for me.
I am an ass on many levels.

CB

[andyhilt27]

LOL. I have a photo from halloween of Joy and I. Perhaps I will email it to you if promise to never share it with anyone. I was passing out candy on the front porch with Joy. Of course, everyone wanted to pet her. I would say, "Back off, that's my huntin' dog, she ain't no pet!" Being from Indiana, I am pretty sure some people thought that I wasn't wearing a cosutme. I even pulled my old Chevy truck to the front to add to the effect. I should have removed a tire or two but I didn't have any concrete blocks. I had on shit kickers, a mullet wig, bibs, bubba teeth, and a trucker hat.

[doberdogsfd]

Oh you had better send it to me now!! LMAO!
Promise to keep it our secret!;)

[andyhilt27]

Cheryl, I sent your birthday present to your aol email.

[doberdogsfd]

I have to tell you Andy once we got the photos to open...there was a small formatting issue, we were a bit concerned!!! OK VERY Concerned...:D!!!

Amelia looks worried about you as well. Very funny. Good Blackmail material also!!!


Bob

[andyhilt27]

Oh, that's Joy. I would never ever do that to Amelia(our daughter). That was 3.5 years ago so that puts Joy at 8ish years old. That photo was uploaded 2 yrs. later with a bunch of photos of Amelia off the camera hence the display name.

Yeah Joy doesn't look too happy. She got up afterwards wagging her nub while running around and play biting.

I am sure I had a few beers in me. Probably not though. Anything for a laugh. LOL.

[doberdogsfd]

Sorry I knew that Amelia was your daughter....fingers moving faster than the brain.


Bob

[pghsatkin]

Hi - I have been reading on this site and hesitate to even join in on this thread, as I know neither of the parties.
I can say that I am a court reporter and have worked in the legal field for 40 years, in criminal court, civil court and for the US House of Representatives.
I have never seen a Warrant issued for someone in a civil case. $75,000 is a pretty hefty bond, even in a criminal case, unless it is a very violent crime or pretty big drug case. Just my two cents worth. And, yes, civil matters and criminal matters are a matter of public record, unless there is a gag order.